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Post by Little LA on May 6, 2019 4:48:27 GMT -8
For me the best part was Sandor and Arya together on the road again. He didn't seem very surprised to see her. But he did listen to her all those nights reciting her little list. Cersei is at the top!
Sansa was NEVER going to keep that secret. She could not wait to tell Tyrion. And once he knew, it was over. Just like the master of secrets told him. But even though Tyrion has made some terrible calls as hand of the Dragon Queen, he is clever. He now knows that Jon would make a better ruler. So I think he told Varys on purpose. He wants that news out. He also had to know that his sister was going to kill Messiandi. That was horrible. I hope Dany doesn't burn Kings Landing to the ground. But she might. I think about the scene with her in the House of the un-dieing and the throne room looked like it was covered in ash. It appeared desolate to me anyway.
Then there was Brienne being jilted by Jaime. I was glad on one hand that she f i n a l l y got her dream. On the other hand, not so much. Good grief he will deserve whatever happens to him. And wait till Euron figures out that there is no way Tyrion could know Cersei was pregnant unless she was MUCH further along and not his baby. Euron might kill Qyburn. I still think that the twincests might be Targs. He was a mad king afterall. And if that's the case, Tyrion won't be taking out Cersei.
Two left. Time has flown by. And the older we get....the faster it flies!
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Post by Chris on May 6, 2019 19:41:19 GMT -8
Jaime left because he is going to kill Cersie and did not want Breinne to follow or try and stop him, so he was cold and pushed her away the only way he could that would not make her want to assist or follow him.
Arya left real fast after the truth of Jon came out, she is going to kill Dany. There are plenty that can kill Cersie.
The fact that Sansa set this in motion with Tyrion telling him what if there was one better and knowing he would tell someone is the Littlefinger influence.
Just wondering if Dany is so hell bent on the Throne that she may try to get Jon Killed as well. She had a cold look to her when she said I told you how.
Oh and the ease that they were ambushed, there is a spy in the Council, knowing they were going to Dragon Stone, and when was leaked by someone.
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 7, 2019 6:32:23 GMT -8
Well, I feel a bit bad, but I was not happy with episode 4. It felt rushed and some of the decisions made seemed stupid. I get it is time for the bittersweet and I won't complain about that. Broke my heart to hear Arya turn down Gendry, but we always knew she wasn't a Lady,"that's not me". Sob! Broke my heart to see Breinne hurt and begging, but Jamie feels responsible for Cersei and his part in allowing her monstrous behavior. I believe Jamie hurt Breinne so she would stay and honor her oath to Cat and he could take his last step to redemption by killing his sister. Sadly it will end his life, but he can go feeling he completed his destiny.
I have a huge problem with the handling of Bran. The way they have him acting is just stupid. All he has done with all of his knowledge is tell Sam to tell Aejon. He doesn't help or give advise. Why have a person that knows everything, but never use them. Sorry, bad writing. We have a new Prince in Dorne... So who is he?? Is he sending help?? Yara has retaken the Iron Islands, great..... Is she coming to help?? Tormund who loves and respects Aejon is going home with his people?? What!!!! Why is he deserting Aejon when he is needed just as badly as he was with the Night's King?? Tormund and his people have just as big a stake as the rest... If Cersei wins she will lock them up North of the Wall and have them hunted down and killed... Why would he lead the Free folk home??? This is the very worst offense of all!! Aejon tells Tormund Ghost belongs North of the Wall, take him. Then when Ghost is whimpering he walks away gets on his horse and rides into the sunset......... Disgusting writing!!!!!!!!! Ghost has been with Aejon for years, he has saved Aejon and been faithful at all times.... He just gives him away and acts like he could care less......Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!!!!!! Tyrion is all of a sudden stupid, he can't make one good decision. Not buying it!!! They have this huge war with Cersei and all they can say is Rip her out root and stem? We don't need to make plans, we don't need to rest our troops, we don't need allies. No, we just sail off, no precautions, la, la, la, no worries. Euron hides behind a rock cliff, he kills Rhaegal and destroys all their ships and captures Missande. BAD WRITING!!!!!! They are rushing and not using logic on how things would happen.
This is the last season ever, why not do it up right??? Finish it with a bang! Take the time to flesh out the story properly. Don't cut corners. It's the last season what would it have hurt to have 8 or 10 episodes and taken the time to tell a complete story. Dan & Dave may never again do a story this big, this may be their legacy. Do it right!!!!!
OK, I'm sorry to you guys, you may disagree with me completely. Sorry to be "Debbie Downer". This has been bothering me since I watched Sunday night and I just had to get it out. I do love this show and don't want to be negative, but the episode had a lot of really bad cracks for me......
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Post by Desert Woman on May 7, 2019 9:44:46 GMT -8
Well, I feel a bit bad, but I was not happy with episode 4. It felt rushed and some of the decisions made seemed stupid. I get it is time for the bittersweet and I won't complain about that. Broke my heart to hear Arya turn down Gendry, but we always knew she wasn't a Lady,"that's not me". Sob! Broke my heart to see Breinne hurt and begging, but Jamie feels responsible for Cersei and his part in allowing her monstrous behavior. I believe Jamie hurt Breinne so she would stay and honor her oath to Cat and he could take his last step to redemption by killing his sister. Sadly it will end his life, but he can go feeling he completed his destiny.
I have a huge problem with the handling of Bran. The way they have him acting is just stupid. All he has done with all of his knowledge is tell Sam to tell Aejon. He doesn't help or give advise. Why have a person that knows everything, but never use them. Sorry, bad writing. We have a new Prince in Dorne... So who is he?? Is he sending help?? Yara has retaken the Iron Islands, great..... Is she coming to help?? Tormund who loves and respects Aejon is going home with his people?? What!!!! Why is he deserting Aejon when he is needed just as badly as he was with the Night's King?? Tormund and his people have just as big a stake as the rest... If Cersei wins she will lock them up North of the Wall and have them hunted down and killed... Why would he lead the Free folk home??? This is the very worst offense of all!! Aejon tells Tormund Ghost belongs North of the Wall, take him. Then when Ghost is whimpering he walks away gets on his horse and rides into the sunset......... Disgusting writing!!!!!!!!! Ghost has been with Aejon for years, he has saved Aejon and been faithful at all times.... He just gives him away and acts like he could care less......Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!!!!!! Tyrion is all of a sudden stupid, he can't make one good decision. Not buying it!!! They have this huge war with Cersei and all they can say is Rip her out root and stem? We don't need to make plans, we don't need to rest our troops, we don't need allies. No, we just sail off, no precautions, la, la, la, no worries. Euron hides behind a rock cliff, he kills Rhaegal and destroys all their ships and captures Missande. BAD WRITING!!!!!! They are rushing and not using logic on how things would happen.
This is the last season ever, why not do it up right??? Finish it with a bang! Take the time to flesh out the story properly. Don't cut corners. It's the last season what would it have hurt to have 8 or 10 episodes and taken the time to tell a complete story. Dan & Dave may never again do a story this big, this may be their legacy. Do it right!!!!!
OK, I'm sorry to you guys, you may disagree with me completely. Sorry to be "Debbie Downer". This has been bothering me since I watched Sunday night and I just had to get it out. I do love this show and don't want to be negative, but the episode had a lot of really bad cracks for me......
I agree with you. After the episode I was like where's the awesomeness like the other 3? Kinda a letdown. Killing Cersei is a noble plan, but can nobody choose happiness in this show ever? And yeah, jon could have at least said goodbye to ghost. Danny was so clearly manipulating Jon when asking him to not tell anyone. With Arya so good at lurking and spying I bet she knew even before he told them waiting to see what he would do. I think you're right. Arya will kill Dany. She will know that Dany will turn on Jon in a New York minute. If Dany was smart tho, she would marry him. Don't think he would go for it now tho. The free folk we're running from the white walkers when they attacked the wall. Now that the white walkers are dead, they just want to go home. Too bad Tormont can't stick around for awhile. Breanna might see him in a different light now that her crush on Jamie has been squashed
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 7, 2019 15:38:34 GMT -8
Well, I feel a bit bad, but I was not happy with episode 4. It felt rushed and some of the decisions made seemed stupid. I get it is time for the bittersweet and I won't complain about that. Broke my heart to hear Arya turn down Gendry, but we always knew she wasn't a Lady,"that's not me". Sob! Broke my heart to see Breinne hurt and begging, but Jamie feels responsible for Cersei and his part in allowing her monstrous behavior. I believe Jamie hurt Breinne so she would stay and honor her oath to Cat and he could take his last step to redemption by killing his sister. Sadly it will end his life, but he can go feeling he completed his destiny.
I have a huge problem with the handling of Bran. The way they have him acting is just stupid. All he has done with all of his knowledge is tell Sam to tell Aejon. He doesn't help or give advise. Why have a person that knows everything, but never use them. Sorry, bad writing. We have a new Prince in Dorne... So who is he?? Is he sending help?? Yara has retaken the Iron Islands, great..... Is she coming to help?? Tormund who loves and respects Aejon is going home with his people?? What!!!! Why is he deserting Aejon when he is needed just as badly as he was with the Night's King?? Tormund and his people have just as big a stake as the rest... If Cersei wins she will lock them up North of the Wall and have them hunted down and killed... Why would he lead the Free folk home??? This is the very worst offense of all!! Aejon tells Tormund Ghost belongs North of the Wall, take him. Then when Ghost is whimpering he walks away gets on his horse and rides into the sunset......... Disgusting writing!!!!!!!!! Ghost has been with Aejon for years, he has saved Aejon and been faithful at all times.... He just gives him away and acts like he could care less......Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!!!!!! Tyrion is all of a sudden stupid, he can't make one good decision. Not buying it!!! They have this huge war with Cersei and all they can say is Rip her out root and stem? We don't need to make plans, we don't need to rest our troops, we don't need allies. No, we just sail off, no precautions, la, la, la, no worries. Euron hides behind a rock cliff, he kills Rhaegal and destroys all their ships and captures Missande. BAD WRITING!!!!!! They are rushing and not using logic on how things would happen.
This is the last season ever, why not do it up right??? Finish it with a bang! Take the time to flesh out the story properly. Don't cut corners. It's the last season what would it have hurt to have 8 or 10 episodes and taken the time to tell a complete story. Dan & Dave may never again do a story this big, this may be their legacy. Do it right!!!!!
OK, I'm sorry to you guys, you may disagree with me completely. Sorry to be "Debbie Downer". This has been bothering me since I watched Sunday night and I just had to get it out. I do love this show and don't want to be negative, but the episode had a lot of really bad cracks for me......
I agree with you. After the episode I was like where's the awesomeness like the other 3? Kinda a letdown. Killing Cersei is a noble plan, but can nobody choose happiness in this show ever? And yeah, jon could have at least said goodbye to ghost. Danny was so clearly manipulating Jon when asking him to not tell anyone. With Arya so good at lurking and spying I bet she knew even before he told them waiting to see what he would do. I think you're right. Arya will kill Dany. She will know that Dany will turn on Jon in a New York minute. If Dany was smart tho, she would marry him. Don't think he would go for it now tho. The free folk we're running from the white walkers when they attacked the wall. Now that the white walkers are dead, they just want to go home. Too bad Tormont can't stick around for awhile. Breanna might see him in a different light now that her crush on Jamie has been squashed Well I'm sure glad I didn't offend you. Without being real negative, they rushed to finished and lost site of writing a good story. Getting off my soap box now!!!
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Post by Desert Woman on May 7, 2019 16:01:08 GMT -8
I agree with you. After the episode I was like where's the awesomeness like the other 3? Kinda a letdown. Killing Cersei is a noble plan, but can nobody choose happiness in this show ever? And yeah, jon could have at least said goodbye to ghost. Danny was so clearly manipulating Jon when asking him to not tell anyone. With Arya so good at lurking and spying I bet she knew even before he told them waiting to see what he would do. I think you're right. Arya will kill Dany. She will know that Dany will turn on Jon in a New York minute. If Dany was smart tho, she would marry him. Don't think he would go for it now tho. The free folk we're running from the white walkers when they attacked the wall. Now that the white walkers are dead, they just want to go home. Too bad Tormont can't stick around for awhile. Breanna might see him in a different light now that her crush on Jamie has been squashed Well I'm sure glad I didn't offend you. Without being real negative, they rushed to finished and lost site of writing a good story. Getting off my soap box now!!! I loved the other 3, but this one was just "meh" for me. I hate the idea that both queens think that the little people are so dispensable.not one but BOTH! It all about power now..
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2019 17:26:58 GMT -8
The details are missing in the writing leaving plot holes and questions all over.
Why was Ghost in the battle at all, smart money would be with Bran not in the middle of a Zombie Horde, my thoughts there is Bran may have been able to Warg into him if he had to and attack, at least your going down swinging.
With Rheagal I could see a surprise happening they were hidden and not sending out scouts is on Dany, they were not that high up and she was relaxing flying on Drogon.
The more important question should be asked is who tipped them off they were heading to Dragon Stone and when. They were in full Sail and Dany had just dropped their Anchors and were sitting ducks.
It dies feel hurried and the Night King's demise felt almost like an afterthought after all the energy put into the actual battles,The fact that Arya designed a Weapon that really never got used much was a waste, would have loved to see her there with Theon as well standing her Ground and having a good Staff Light Saber type fight with her dual ended staff with Dragon Glass and then just when we see him go for the kill have her do something with the dagger when Ghost or Bran Warging attacks and creates a Moment for Arya.
Going Forward sadly Grey Worm is going to die, he is going to lose his Unsullied Control and just start killing everything and confront the Mountain I feel and die, that's has to be when we see Clegan Bowl as the Hound Steps up and or Arya as well.
Still think somehow Arya has a face to wear to kill Dany, or the writers may be setting her up to die as well in an attempt, the closing scene with Gendry was a bit cold and final. Could be wrong and I know George said he has two protected Characters, Arya and Tyrion, neither look very safe in the show at the moment and Dan and Dave are not George.
Just find it awkward she leaves Winterfell on her own and not with Jon if she was going to Kings Landing if she wasn't on a mission for Sansa and the family that they did not want Jon to be aware of. Although the Mountain is also on her list and she teamed up with The Hound.
Bran for being such an important character has had noted involvement but so limited that part of the story seems wasteful right now.
Also where are the Reeds? What about the Isle of Faces?
Ok just loose ends that I wanted cleaned up oh and then there is Quaithe, she was prophesying and then nothing about her.
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 8, 2019 5:56:14 GMT -8
Well, it sounds like we all found faults with episode 4. We all seem to agree it is rushed which makes for big plot holes. But, it is what it is, we have to find what we love or like and try to forget the parts that bother us. It is a complex plot and hard to tie up all the threads. Chris mentioned the Reeds and the Ilse of Faces, which also bothered me. I wish they had been willing to devote the time to tie up all the threads, but not to be.
I guess I can see why GRRM is having so much trouble with this book. He is trying to tie up all the threads and it has to be complicated as hell. I'm praying he will finish this saga, before I, and he kick the bucket. That is the only way we will get an ending that answers all our questions.
Negatives aside, I'm still glad they did the TV show. I love all the actors, they have done a brilliant job. They put life into our beloved book characters, priceless!!!!!
Here's hoping the last 2 episodes are better than 4, even with the bittersweet. We know many more will die, it will hurt, but that is the story. As GRRM said, if you thought it would all end well, you haven't been paying attention. I had three throw the book across the room episodes, so the last two books will probably have 5 or 6 per book. LOL!!!
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 8, 2019 6:02:14 GMT -8
Well I'm sure glad I didn't offend you. Without being real negative, they rushed to finished and lost site of writing a good story. Getting off my soap box now!!! I loved the other 3, but this one was just "meh" for me. I hate the idea that both queens think that the little people are so dispensable.not one but BOTH! It all about power now.. Totally agree DW !!!
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Post by Little LA on May 8, 2019 8:01:03 GMT -8
Marilyn, Chris and DW we are in agreement. I still really enjoyed Arya and Sandor starting another road trip together. Bran has been one of the biggest mysteries to me. He does NOT give much info. Perhaps it's because he is in fear that if he says too much it may affect the outcome. But surely there were a few things he could have noted to all involved. What is the job of TTER? Just to know stuff?
It does seem that all the people in Kings Landing are probably doomed. Dany is over it. All of it. Cersei and her people gotta go! By fire! Perhaps Arya can get to her first before she murders all those people. I'm so curious as to what faces we get to see her wear in the final two...might she grab Sandor's face and finish off his brother?? I used to think that, but now I'm kinda thinking Freaken Mountain has the largest target on his back to feel a Dragon's rage. But, there is the teleporting thing/time traveling that they seem to employ. So maybe not.
As Yegritt (and others) have told him repeatedly "You know nothing Jon Snow". That's probably not quite true. He better be a better hero than that!
Future of the Targs? Dany always said she would "break the wheel". The Targ's are the oldest parts of that wheel. So many great houses have been wiped out. Their's may have to go also.
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 8, 2019 11:31:08 GMT -8
Marilyn, Chris and DW we are in agreement. I still really enjoyed Arya and Sandor starting another road trip together. Bran has been one of the biggest mysteries to me. He does NOT give much info. Perhaps it's because he is in fear that if he says too much it may affect the outcome. But surely there were a few things he could have noted to all involved. What is the job of TTER? Just to know stuff?
It does seem that all the people in Kings Landing are probably doomed. Dany is over it. All of it. Cersei and her people gotta go! By fire! Perhaps Arya can get to her first before she murders all those people. I'm so curious as to what faces we get to see her wear in the final two...might she grab Sandor's face and finish off his brother?? I used to think that, but now I'm kinda thinking Freaken Mountain has the largest target on his back to feel a Dragon's rage. But, there is the teleporting thing/time traveling that they seem to employ. So maybe not.
As Yegritt (and others) have told him repeatedly "You know nothing Jon Snow". That's probably not quite true. He better be a better hero than that!
Future of the Targs? Dany always said she would "break the wheel". The Targ's are the oldest parts of that wheel. So many great houses have been wiped out. Their's may have to go also.
I agree, Sandor and Arya riding together was one of the highlight's of episode 4. I wish they could ride off into the sunset together, as pals, at the end. But, bittersweet! About the only thing I'm looking forward to next episode is where they are and what they are doing. Well I also pray for a good cohesive episode 5. I can handle the deaths if they make sense and are handled in a appropriate way. I for one cried more episode 4 than 3.
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 8, 2019 11:32:56 GMT -8
The details are missing in the writing leaving plot holes and questions all over. Why was Ghost in the battle at all, smart money would be with Bran not in the middle of a Zombie Horde, my thoughts there is Bran may have been able to Warg into him if he had to and attack, at least your going down swinging. With Rheagal I could see a surprise happening they were hidden and not sending out scouts is on Dany, they were not that high up and she was relaxing flying on Drogon. The more important question should be asked is who tipped them off they were heading to Dragon Stone and when. They were in full Sail and Dany had just dropped their Anchors and were sitting ducks. It dies feel hurried and the Night King's demise felt almost like an afterthought after all the energy put into the actual battles,The fact that Arya designed a Weapon that really never got used much was a waste, would have loved to see her there with Theon as well standing her Ground and having a good Staff Light Saber type fight with her dual ended staff with Dragon Glass and then just when we see him go for the kill have her do something with the dagger when Ghost or Bran Warging attacks and creates a Moment for Arya. Going Forward sadly Grey Worm is going to die, he is going to lose his Unsullied Control and just start killing everything and confront the Mountain I feel and die, that's has to be when we see Clegan Bowl as the Hound Steps up and or Arya as well. Still think somehow Arya has a face to wear to kill Dany, or the writers may be setting her up to die as well in an attempt, the closing scene with Gendry was a bit cold and final. Could be wrong and I know George said he has two protected Characters, Arya and Tyrion, neither look very safe in the show at the moment and Dan and Dave are not George. Just find it awkward she leaves Winterfell on her own and not with Jon if she was going to Kings Landing if she wasn't on a mission for Sansa and the family that they did not want Jon to be aware of. Although the Mountain is also on her list and she teamed up with The Hound. Bran for being such an important character has had noted involvement but so limited that part of the story seems wasteful right now. Also where are the Reeds? What about the Isle of Faces? Ok just loose ends that I wanted cleaned up oh and then there is Quaithe, she was prophesying and then nothing about her. Chris, if they don't have "Clegane Bowl" there could be rioting in the streets!! LOL!!
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Post by Chris on May 8, 2019 19:02:37 GMT -8
Well Dany needs more Caffeine so she can get her edginess up more, Glad they put a Starbucks in Winterfell, I wonder if they have Uber to deliver as well
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 9, 2019 5:54:53 GMT -8
Well Dany needs more Caffeine so she can get her edginess up more, Glad they put a Starbucks in Winterfell, I wonder if they have Uber to deliver as well LMAO!!!!!
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Post by Stark Wolf on May 9, 2019 6:12:13 GMT -8
Yesterday I spent a couple of hours, bad girl, going out into fandom to read what people are saying. Wow! people are ripping episode 4 to shreads.Dan & Dave are taking a secluded vacation several days before the finale so they won't have access to news print or internet. Now that is scary, that tells me we can expect more of the same in the last 2 episodes. Maybe Dany can take her Starbucks while she is riding Drogan. How sad they lost their commitment before the story was finished. Now I see why they have been so worried by fan reaction. Makes me sad!!
All we can do is pray it is not any worse than episode 4.......
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