Post by Chris on Aug 26, 2017 16:13:35 GMT -8
Ok, with the set up for the last episode and what we know.
Ned Stark is a Traitor to the realm, loyal to his sister, made a promise to his family. a oath of blood so to speak. What were and are the ramifications from that.
1) He was looked at as a cheater by his wife and was lessoned in her eyes his whole time with Cat.
2) His reputation across the realm smeared in that everyone knew he was a honorable man and thought he in a moment of weakness took another women, his honor made him take his bastard so to raise.
3) The Bastard son was a divisive aspect of his marriage to Cat.
4) What he really had done was betray the realm and Robert, Ned knew that Jon was Rheagars son, we don't know but since Lyanna told Ned his name I would assume the dots connected he knew Lyanna had married Rheagar. This further betrayed Robert unknowingly.
5) This means that Ned lived with a slight betrayal that overall was deemed acceptable by most, many married men had times with whores, but Ned not being one of them lived a life where his promise to Lyanna portrayed him as someone that was not who he was. That hurt, further more the jabs about his sons whore struck him since they were really about his sister.
6) He also was living a lie concerning Robert, a man that had condemned all Targaryen's to death, his sister being one now and her son, not following his orders made him treasonous.
No wonder he was never really happy, his whole life was one of honor, and he was honorable, just not to whom we thought.
Ok now the fall out and what I think it means.
1) We know about Cat, she loved him but could not love Jon, what would have happened if Ned had confided in her that he was Lyannas son.Not disclosing Rheagar as his father?
2) Benjen had to know, he was the closest sibling to Lyanna, even if he didn't know Rheagar was the father which I am betting he did, when Ned brought Lyanna back to the crypts to be entombed Benjen would have been all over this. Ned not disclosing what happened would have made him furious, I am sure Benjen would have seen her and known she had a baby. If Benjen knew he would also be honor bound to protect her secret, not maybe as a spoke word but because of his love for his sister. He also would be upset at Ned as well for not being able to save her. Another problem as a Lord he would with knowledge now be also a traitor to the realm, unlike Ned who at the time had small boys he had an option, take the Black.
He would not be involved with the realm and would not have to answer any questions concerning the situation. That's part of the oath, he protects but gave up all titles and involvement with the realm. I also if you have seen it think he was the one that carved R+L= J in the wooden post at Castle Black we see during that conversation Meuster Aemon had with Jon about his desire to flee and help his family. I think it was then or was it Kill the Boy and let the man be born, either way it was there and I can't think of anyone else that would have done it. I also believe Benjen knew because when Jon said he wanted to take the black Benjen stated that you may not if you knew what you would be giving up.
He was also I think carrying a lot of guilt over it all, he was the First Ranger, he was or seemed to push to patrol as much as possible, how the books do this is a question still, but it was almost a death wish. Also he was there to protect Bran and then Jon, Bran was his blood but in the show risking all for his sisters child as well if he was just bastard and dying, Benjen is honorable but really there has to be more.
3) Meuster Aemon, I think he knew as well, Benjen may have told him, I am sure there was a question if Benjen carved R+L=J in the post, but he also was in contact with Rheagar a lot thru Raven Mail, Rheagar from all information looked up to Aemon, he was a confidant also, if he was at the Tower of Joy for a year or close to it knowing the prophesy also which Aemon was very much obsessed with younger as well I am sure he said something. Which is why we get the cryptic dialogue about a Targaryen alone in the world is a sad thing or something to that nature. Aemon would also know that the secret had to be kept since Robert was on the hunt for any other Targaryen's.
What does this all mean in current day.
Jon would be the heir apparent to the throne, not Dany.
Jon would also be the Heir apparent to the King of the North being the Sister son of Ned, there have been women in charge of the North in the past, but it was not long, The She Wolves of Winterfell, Bran is not able to be King so the line would fall to the next male in line of succession, that would be Jon legitimately now. Or Aemon Targaryen if we are to believe that is his correct name.
It also means that the whole of Roberts Rebellion was based on a lie.
It means that the war of the 5 Kings was based on a lie as fall out from Roberts Rebellion and the succession, which Tywin capitalized on.
Lyanna loved Rheagar and was not abducted, she loved him and got married.The had a male child that by succession is heir to the throne, Robert would have never had the support to go to war if the truth was known. Ned would have never had to lie to Robert, never had to lie to Cat, Benjen would never had to go to the wall.100,000's would not have had to die. Neds Brother and Father would not have been executed either I feel since they went there demanding Lyanna's return. Really that would mean that Brandon would have married Cat, Ned probably Ashara Dayne.
So really the reason everything went to hell was Rheagars fault, it started at the Tourney in Harrenhall.
I wonder how much Littlefinger and Varys know about all this?
Thoughts?
Ned Stark is a Traitor to the realm, loyal to his sister, made a promise to his family. a oath of blood so to speak. What were and are the ramifications from that.
1) He was looked at as a cheater by his wife and was lessoned in her eyes his whole time with Cat.
2) His reputation across the realm smeared in that everyone knew he was a honorable man and thought he in a moment of weakness took another women, his honor made him take his bastard so to raise.
3) The Bastard son was a divisive aspect of his marriage to Cat.
4) What he really had done was betray the realm and Robert, Ned knew that Jon was Rheagars son, we don't know but since Lyanna told Ned his name I would assume the dots connected he knew Lyanna had married Rheagar. This further betrayed Robert unknowingly.
5) This means that Ned lived with a slight betrayal that overall was deemed acceptable by most, many married men had times with whores, but Ned not being one of them lived a life where his promise to Lyanna portrayed him as someone that was not who he was. That hurt, further more the jabs about his sons whore struck him since they were really about his sister.
6) He also was living a lie concerning Robert, a man that had condemned all Targaryen's to death, his sister being one now and her son, not following his orders made him treasonous.
No wonder he was never really happy, his whole life was one of honor, and he was honorable, just not to whom we thought.
Ok now the fall out and what I think it means.
1) We know about Cat, she loved him but could not love Jon, what would have happened if Ned had confided in her that he was Lyannas son.Not disclosing Rheagar as his father?
2) Benjen had to know, he was the closest sibling to Lyanna, even if he didn't know Rheagar was the father which I am betting he did, when Ned brought Lyanna back to the crypts to be entombed Benjen would have been all over this. Ned not disclosing what happened would have made him furious, I am sure Benjen would have seen her and known she had a baby. If Benjen knew he would also be honor bound to protect her secret, not maybe as a spoke word but because of his love for his sister. He also would be upset at Ned as well for not being able to save her. Another problem as a Lord he would with knowledge now be also a traitor to the realm, unlike Ned who at the time had small boys he had an option, take the Black.
He would not be involved with the realm and would not have to answer any questions concerning the situation. That's part of the oath, he protects but gave up all titles and involvement with the realm. I also if you have seen it think he was the one that carved R+L= J in the wooden post at Castle Black we see during that conversation Meuster Aemon had with Jon about his desire to flee and help his family. I think it was then or was it Kill the Boy and let the man be born, either way it was there and I can't think of anyone else that would have done it. I also believe Benjen knew because when Jon said he wanted to take the black Benjen stated that you may not if you knew what you would be giving up.
He was also I think carrying a lot of guilt over it all, he was the First Ranger, he was or seemed to push to patrol as much as possible, how the books do this is a question still, but it was almost a death wish. Also he was there to protect Bran and then Jon, Bran was his blood but in the show risking all for his sisters child as well if he was just bastard and dying, Benjen is honorable but really there has to be more.
3) Meuster Aemon, I think he knew as well, Benjen may have told him, I am sure there was a question if Benjen carved R+L=J in the post, but he also was in contact with Rheagar a lot thru Raven Mail, Rheagar from all information looked up to Aemon, he was a confidant also, if he was at the Tower of Joy for a year or close to it knowing the prophesy also which Aemon was very much obsessed with younger as well I am sure he said something. Which is why we get the cryptic dialogue about a Targaryen alone in the world is a sad thing or something to that nature. Aemon would also know that the secret had to be kept since Robert was on the hunt for any other Targaryen's.
What does this all mean in current day.
Jon would be the heir apparent to the throne, not Dany.
Jon would also be the Heir apparent to the King of the North being the Sister son of Ned, there have been women in charge of the North in the past, but it was not long, The She Wolves of Winterfell, Bran is not able to be King so the line would fall to the next male in line of succession, that would be Jon legitimately now. Or Aemon Targaryen if we are to believe that is his correct name.
It also means that the whole of Roberts Rebellion was based on a lie.
It means that the war of the 5 Kings was based on a lie as fall out from Roberts Rebellion and the succession, which Tywin capitalized on.
Lyanna loved Rheagar and was not abducted, she loved him and got married.The had a male child that by succession is heir to the throne, Robert would have never had the support to go to war if the truth was known. Ned would have never had to lie to Robert, never had to lie to Cat, Benjen would never had to go to the wall.100,000's would not have had to die. Neds Brother and Father would not have been executed either I feel since they went there demanding Lyanna's return. Really that would mean that Brandon would have married Cat, Ned probably Ashara Dayne.
So really the reason everything went to hell was Rheagars fault, it started at the Tourney in Harrenhall.
I wonder how much Littlefinger and Varys know about all this?
Thoughts?